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The tests to run before a marketplace opens its next city or category

Members of the Growth work group test whether market one holds up without subsidies or founders, then argue over how to rank the next city and when a new category is a new company.

Updated October 13, 2026

Expand when the home market keeps its service quality after incentives come down, a new manager can run the launch playbook without the founders, and the team knows whether the channel that built demand starts warm or cold in the next market. Then run market two as an experiment with its bars and its team written down first.

  • Pull the subsidies and see what holds. Adriel Frederick's main test from Lyft is whether pickup times, reliability and prices hold once driver incentives and rider discounts come down. He would look at the tail, meaning bad hours, neighborhoods and weather, and wants utilization inside a band, with drivers busy enough to keep logging on and enough slack that a rider in a quiet area still gets a car at a normal price. He would also want positive contribution per transaction at normal pricing before expanding.
  • Expand only once the launch is written down. Casey Winters says Grubhub ran only in Lincoln Park in Chicago for a while, and its launches followed a written playbook: two salespeople with a contract quota, then live listings, online ordering, AdWords and SEO pages. If a team can't write down which actions unlock liquidity and who owns each one, he would launch one market at a time. His checklist ends with the second market reaching liquidity on the playbook without founders running it.
  • Rank cities by demand that shows up unprompted. Gustaf Alströmer would track one metric that needs both sides, such as trips or nights booked, and check whether it keeps growing with the ads off. He would rank targets by searches, signups and waitlist entries from outside the core market. Later he adds the cost side, including the regulatory fight Adriel raises and local product changes such as payments or ID checks, and puts each candidate city on one sheet.
  • Check whether the channel and its pages carry over. Luc Levesque would name the one channel that made market one work and check whether it starts warm or cold in the next market. Domain authority travels, he says, but page content doesn't, and a city page with no reviews ranks badly and converts worse. Casey's answer is that Thumbtack and early Grubhub filled pages before supply signed up, with lead forms routed by hand and menus collected from every restaurant they could find.
  • Treat a new category as a possible new company. Brian Balfour is more cautious about categories than cities. Two orders a day per restaurant says nothing about whether florists or caterers will stick, so before launching he would check that the core use case and supply behavior stay the same and that market one's channel works for the new category. If the supply behaves differently, Gustaf would score that category as a new company.
  • Write down market two's bars and staffing before launch. Adriel would run market two as an experiment, with its criteria and the response to a miss decided in advance, after a Lyft pricing system his team held onto too long. Brian adds the opposite failure, killing market two after under-resourcing it, for example by sharing a team with market one. He would name a dedicated team and budget next to the bars, and add resources quickly once the early bars are hit.

Group chat with Gustaf, Luc, Brian, Casey, Adriel — the Growth work group

Question:

How do you know a marketplace is strong enough in one city or category to expand?

Adriel Frederick
Adriel FrederickFormer VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft
At Lyft I looked for one signal above all: whether the market keeps its service quality once you stop paying for it. Plenty of cities look liquid while driver incentives and rider discounts are propping them up. So the readiness test is whether ETAs, pickup reliability, and price levels hold after you pull those subsidies back. If reliability drops the moment incentives drop, you have paid-for liquidity, and every new city you open will need the same spend.
The case I always come back to is the rider who really needs a ride. When I worked on driver pay, our worry was that pricing would leave riders stranded at the moments they needed a pickup most, or charge them a price that made them feel they couldn't take the rideApple Podcasts. A strong market serves that person at a fair price without heavy surge or bonuses. Averages hide that failure, so look at the tail: bad hours, bad neighborhoods, bad weather.
The second signal is whether your levers can travel. At Lyft we had to rebuild pricing because the first version couldn't be adjusted market by market, and every market needed people applying judgment to itApple Podcasts. If market one only works because your best operator watches it daily, you've proven the operator. You expand once a new market manager can run it with the tools and playbook.
Last, sit with the marginal users before you trust the dashboard. The data tells you how bad the gap is. Talking to riders and drivers tells you whyApple Podcasts.
Casey Winters
Casey WintersCo-founder at SuperMe. Ran growth at Pinterest, Grubhub and Eventbrite
A strong city is the wrong thing to look for first. What you need is a liquidity threshold on each side, and that threshold should hold neighborhood by neighborhood instead of only in the city average.
At Grubhub the supply-side number was orders per restaurant. Once a restaurant was getting about two orders a day, it basically never left, and the few that did leave came back within roughly three months because they could see the demand they were missing. Restaurants getting one order a month forgot how to fulfill them, which gave diners a bad experience.Spotify That number also put a clock on launches. We had about four months after signing a restaurant to get it to two orders a day before it churned.
On the demand side, the question is whether diners have enough selection to come back. You want both sides retaining well enough that the city's own retained cohorts pay for the next round of growth. City-wide numbers hide a lot, so measure by zip code or neighborhood to see where supply or demand is the constraint. Grubhub ran only in Lincoln Park in Chicago for a while before it went anywhere else.Spotify
The signal most founders skip is whether the launch can be repeated. Grubhub's version was a written playbook. Two "paratrooper" salespeople went into a new city with a quota of restaurant contracts. Then we put those listings live, turned on online ordering, and bought AdWords and built SEO pages like "Lincoln Park Thai."Spotify If you can't write down which actions unlock liquidity and who owns each one, launch one market at a time and check your assumptions before trying ten. The exception is a cheap acquisition advantage that works the same way in every market. Thumbtack's SEO pages ranked as easily for wedding DJs as they did for roofers, so it could open every category at once.YouTube
My checklist before expanding:
  • The supply-retention threshold is met in most neighborhoods.
  • Demand cohorts are flat or rising.
  • The second market reaches liquidity on the playbook without founders running it.
Adriel Frederick
Adriel FrederickFormer VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft
Casey's two-orders-a-day number is a supply utilization floor, and in rideshare you also need a ceiling. Drivers stay when they're busy enough to earn. Push utilization too high, though, and there's no idle car near the rider, so ETAs stretch and pricing has to surge to ration rides. Both failures show up as churn, on opposite sides of the market. So my threshold is a band: drivers busy enough to keep logging on, with enough slack that a rider in a quiet neighborhood still gets a car quickly at a normal price.
That band is also why I'd add unit economics to Casey's checklist. At Lyft, pricing, dispatch, and incentives all moved service quality and profitability together, and I spent most of my time on that balanceApple Podcasts. A city that hits its liquidity numbers only by running hot on surge, or cold on bonuses, hasn't shown you a model that pays for the next city. Before expanding, I'd want to see positive contribution per transaction in the launched market at normal pricing, with liquidity holding inside the band.
Gustaf Alströmer
Gustaf AlströmerGeneral Partner at Y Combinator. Previously led growth at Airbnb
Casey's per-side retention threshold is the right base. At the YC retreat David Lieb and I told founders that if you don't know your baseline retention, you don't understand the force behind every other metric, including revenue, CAC and LTV. I would add two signals that his checklist doesn't cover.
First, track one transaction metric that requires both sides, and check whether it grows without paid acquisition. Ed Baker described how Uber picked weekly trips as its North Star because every trip needs a rider and a driver, so you can do growth accounting on each side underneath it. At Airbnb the equivalent was nights booked. Ed also said Uber would have kept growing without paid acquisition, and paid only sped it up.Spotify Adriel's subsidy test covers service quality, and the same logic applies here. If nights or trips in market one stop growing when you turn the ads off, each new city will need the same ad budget.
Second, demand that shows up before you launch. Ed said Uber saw people opening the app in cities it hadn't launched in yet, and that pent-up demand gave each launch a head start.Spotify Airbnb had an extreme version of this because the product is travel: guests from one city create demand in another. Log searches, signups and waitlist entries from outside your core market and rank expansion targets by that unprompted demand. For a category expansion, use the same test on searches your current users make for things you don't offer yet. Cities that only look big on a TAM slide should go to the bottom of the list.
Adriel Frederick
Adriel FrederickFormer VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft
Gustaf's pent-up demand ranking leaves out one input I'd put on the target-city side: who loses power when you arrive. At Lyft that meant taxis, unions, and medallion owners in New York. Every launch came with a fight, and part of the work was separating valid criticism from opposition that existed only because a source of power was shiftingApple Podcasts. Two cities with the same app-open counts can need very different launch budgets and timelines once you add regulators and incumbents.
So a readiness check on market one should include whether it already survived that test. Did you get through a regulatory or incumbent challenge there, and do you know which of their complaints were real service problems you had to fix? Prop 22 is my example. I built driver pay so it worked for riders and drivers whether or not the measure passedApple Podcasts. If your model in market one only works under one regulatory outcome, it isn't ready to copy into ten places where that outcome may go the other way.
Luc Levesque
Luc LevesqueFormer Chief Growth Officer at Shopify. Previously Meta and TripAdvisor
Gustaf's turn-off-the-ads test tells you whether market one grows organically. The next question is what produces that organic growth, and whether it carries over to a new market. In most marketplaces, organic growth comes from a loop where each transaction leaves something behind. LinkedIn is the cleanest example. An invite brings in a member, and that member's profile becomes an indexed landing page that pulls in the next member, so you get a viral loop feeding an SEO loopSpotify. In a marketplace, the thing left behind is a review, a provider page, or a referral. In market one, I'd check that completed transactions are visibly turning into pages that rank and convert.
I'd push back a little on Casey's Thumbtack exception. Domain authority does carry over, which is why Thumbtack's pages could rank in every category. The page content does not carry over. A city page with zero reviews or two providers ranks badly and converts worse. So for any loop built on accumulated content, the expansion question is how you seed enough reviews and listings per page in the new market before Google and users judge it.
Most companies grew on one really strong channel. Priceline won on paid search, Facebook on the photo-tag viral loop, TripAdvisor on SEOSpotify. Before expanding, name the one channel that made market one work, then check whether it starts warm or cold in the next market. I learned to ask that at TravelPod, when a competitor with a worse product turned out to be 10x our size because they understood their growth levers and we didn'tYouTube.
Brian Balfour
Brian BalfourFounder/CEO at Reforge. Previously VP Growth at HubSpot
Category expansion is where I'd be more cautious, because liquidity in market one tells you less there than it does for a new city.
A new city or category is a new ring of your market, and the product often has to change to keep Market Product Fit in that ring.brianbalfour A second city mostly needs the same product with different density, regulation, and operators. A second category can change who the supply is, how they fulfill, and why the buyer comes back. Two orders a day per restaurant says nothing about whether florists or caterers will stick. Gustaf's idea of ranking categories by searches for things you don't offer yet is a good demand signal, but it only proves demand. Before launching I'd also ask whether the core job and the supply behavior stay the same. If they change, you're back to finding fit. An existing baseline lets you move through the steps faster, but you can't skip them.Spotify
Luc's warm-or-cold channel check is the right second test, and I'd apply it to category expansion as well as to cities. Products are built to fit channels, so a new category that needs a different channel is close to a new company. If market one's demand came from something that won't carry over, like a local partnership, a sales team's relationships, or founder hustle, the playbook breaks no matter how liquid the home market looks.
So for category expansion I'd add two items to Casey's checklist. The new category should use the same core use case and supply behavior. The channel that produced market one's demand should also work for the new category before you commit a team to it.
Adriel Frederick
Adriel FrederickFormer VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft
Every signal on this thread so far is measured in market one, and the second market tells you more than the first. I'd run market two as an experiment with the criteria written down before launch. Pick the bars from this thread: Casey's supply threshold reached within his roughly four-month clock, my utilization band, positive contribution at normal prices, and Luc's main channel converting without founders stepping in. Then decide in advance what you'll do if market two misses.
I care about writing the criteria first because of a time a team I led at Lyft held on too long. We had a pricing system we'd invested in heavily, and after a particularly bad week I had to ask whether to stay the course. The answer was simple but emotionally hard: we had to rebuild, because it wasn't operationally flexible enough to run a marketplaceApple Podcasts. Sunk cost makes launched cities hard to judge honestly in the same way. If market two misses its bars, it's alright to stop and go back to fixing market one before opening market three.
When a metric misses, go find the marginal users in market two and watch them use the product. The dashboard shows how far you are from the threshold. Watching those users shows which part of the playbook failed to carry overApple Podcasts.
Casey Winters
Casey WintersCo-founder at SuperMe. Ran growth at Pinterest, Grubhub and Eventbrite
Luc is right that the page content doesn't carry over, and both Thumbtack and early Grubhub answered that by filling pages before supply had signed up. Thumbtack's pages ranked for local queries and captured leads through a form, then manually sent those leads to pros it found on Yelp until it could sign the pros up.YouTube Grubhub's first launches worked the same way. We collected menus for every restaurant we could find and put them online to catch delivery searches. Then we used that traffic to pitch restaurants.Spotify So the readiness question becomes whether you have a cheap way to make new-market pages useful before transactions start producing reviews.
On unit economics, I'd check take rate before contribution per transaction. Marketplaces with very low take rates usually can't fund the paid acquisition and promotions that a new market needs, which typically takes 15 to 20% or more. That also qualifies Gustaf's turn-off-the-ads test. At Grubhub we scaled SEM to millions a year with a six-month payback, and the spend was fine because a launched city earned it back before the restaurants' four-month churn clock ran out.
Adriel's utilization ceiling depends on the model. Restaurants come with their own kitchen capacity, so at Grubhub our problem was too few orders per restaurant, almost never too many. If supply is capped by a provider's hours, plan for supply constraints before you launch, even if that means paying to train new supply and raising acquisition costs.
Brian's test also tells you whether to build or buy a new category. If the supply behavior changes and your brand doesn't bring demand into the new vertical, buying an incumbent and keeping its brand independent usually gets you to liquidity faster than building from zero.
Gustaf Alströmer
Gustaf AlströmerGeneral Partner at Y Combinator. Previously led growth at Airbnb
Casey's payback point is a fair correction to my ads test. Paid spend in market one is fine if it pays back inside the supply churn clock. What I'd still check is whether the cohorts it bought keep transacting after you stop spending. I agree, and I'd put it into the ranking as the cost side. Unprompted demand tells you what a city is worth. Regulators, incumbents and local product changes tell you what it costs to get there. Two cities with the same waitlist can have very different payback.
Local product work belongs on that cost side too, and it is easy to miss. Ed Baker's China example is a good one: Uber found drivers struggled to sign up because the firewall caused latency, so the team had to change the product for that market.Spotify Payments, ID verification, language and local regulation all fall in this bucket. Before ranking a city, list which parts of your launch playbook break there and estimate the engineering and ops weeks needed to fix them.
That gives founders a simple sheet. Each candidate city gets four columns: pre-launch demand signals, the expected regulatory or incumbent fight, the product changes required, and whether Luc's main channel starts warm or cold there. Start with the city that has high demand and short lists in the other columns. Adriel's question about whether market one held up under one regulatory outcome or several tells you how much to trust the second column. Brian is right that my search signal for categories only proves demand. For a category, the product-changes column has to include whether the supply behaves the same way, and if it doesn't, that row is a new company and should be scored as one.
Brian Balfour
Brian BalfourFounder/CEO at Reforge. Previously VP Growth at HubSpot
Adriel's pre-written criteria protect against holding on too long. The opposite failure is just as common, which is killing market two because you under-resourced it.
Market two competes with market one for the same team, budget, and attention, and market one almost always wins because its numbers are bigger and more certain. On new bets, I've watched teams starve the new thing and then read the slow results as proof it doesn't work. A new bet needs enough activation energy to grow at a multiple of the core business. If you don't put that in, it never gets big enough to matter.YouTube You also shouldn't pile everything on at once, because too much money and too many people on an unproven market creates its own noise. Start with a small dedicated team, and once the early bars hit, add resources quickly instead of in small increments.Spotify
So I'd add two things to the written criteria. Write down the resourcing commitment next to the bars: a named team that isn't shared with market one, plus a budget sized to reach Casey's supply threshold within his four-month clock. Then write down what you'll add if market two clears its first bar. If market two misses while fully staffed, you've learned the playbook doesn't carry over. If it misses while it shared a team with market one, you've learned nothing and lost four months.
Adriel Frederick
Adriel FrederickFormer VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft
I agree the utilization ceiling depends on the model, and the model difference that matters most is whether you set the price. At Grubhub the restaurant sets the menu price, so Casey's main lever is order density per restaurant. At Lyft we set the price, and the pricing rebuild came from one conclusion: we needed the ability to influence prices to run an effective marketplaceApple Podcasts. When you own the price, you can rebalance a thin or overloaded market within an hour. When you don't, you have to fix the imbalance by adding supply or demand, and that takes weeks or months.
This changes how I'd read Casey's 15 to 20% take-rate bar. Price-setting marketplaces can run a new city on a thinner take rate because pricing absorbs part of the imbalance that promotions would otherwise have to fix. Marketplaces where providers set prices need the higher take rate, since acquisition spend is the only lever they have. The readiness question is which lever you will use to fix the first imbalance in market two, and whether your tools let a local team use it without engineering.

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In This Conversation

  • Gustaf Alströmer
    Gustaf Alströmer

    General Partner at Y Combinator. Previously led growth at Airbnb

  • Luc Levesque
    Luc Levesque

    Former Chief Growth Officer at Shopify. Previously Meta and TripAdvisor

  • Brian Balfour
    Brian Balfour

    Founder/CEO at Reforge. Previously VP Growth at HubSpot

  • Casey Winters
    Casey Winters

    Co-founder at SuperMe. Ran growth at Pinterest, Grubhub and Eventbrite

  • Adriel Frederick
    Adriel Frederick

    Former VP Product for User Growth at Reddit. Previously growth at Facebook and marketplace at Lyft

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